The Commanding Officer's stateroom door on the USS Miami SSN 755 displayed a quote from Richard McKenna's 1962 novel The Sand Pebbles.
- "We serve the flag. The trade we follow is the give and take of death. It is for that purpose the American people maintain us. Any one of us who believes he has a job like any other, for which he draws a money wage, is a thief of the food he eats and a trespasser in the bunk in which he lies down to sleep!" -LT Collins.
Never has the operation of the Navy in our democracy and exspecailly our submarine force been so hidden in secrecy to its people...never has the 4th estate been so disinterested in the Navy. I am not talking about these touristy happyland stories that makes everyone feel complacent about our services... But the kind of stories that criticizes and highlight shortcomings and inspires organizations to be better than they are. Man, has the 4th estate been hollowed out....and so shall the military!
The words of the Commander of the Navy’s submarine force, Vice Adm. John Richardson on this June19, 2012 (USS Miami's fire occurred on May 23, 2012?):
“Invisibility and character have a long relationship, and it hasn’t always been a healthy one. Being out of sight can uniquely challenge one’s character. This is not a new idea. In the Second Book of the Republic, written around 400 BC, Plato describes the challenge of the Ring of Gyges – a ring that will make its wearer invisible. From The Republic:
“Invisibility and character have a long relationship, and it hasn’t always been a healthy one. Being out of sight can uniquely challenge one’s character. This is not a new idea. In the Second Book of the Republic, written around 400 BC, Plato describes the challenge of the Ring of Gyges – a ring that will make its wearer invisible. From The Republic:
·
Suppose
now that there were two such magic rings, and the just put on one of them and
the unjust the other; no man can be imagined to be of such an iron nature that
he would stand fast in justice. No man would keep his hands off what was not
his own when he could safely take what he liked out of the market, or go into
houses and lie with any one at his pleasure, or kill or release from prison
whom he would, and in all respects be like a god among men.
·
Then the
actions of the just would be as the actions of the unjust; they would both come
at last to the same point. — Plato's Republic, 360b-d (Jowett trans.)
Plato surmised that we are moral because we must be – and that left
unchecked by society’s eye, we’d devolve to a state of low morality, of low
character. Beyond Plato and several examples in mythology (think Gollum in
Tolkein’s Lord of the Rings), there is plenty of evidence to support this
proposition. One only need consider the more recent examples of the Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971 or the abuses of Abu Ghraib
prison in 2004-2006, both of which had elements of “invisibility,” to find
examples of the degeneration of character that can occur when you think no one
is looking. In short, Plato may have been on to something.”
The Navy has been interested in the study of character, and its relation to being out of sight, for a long time – in fact the Stanford Prison Experiment mentioned above was funded by the Office of Naval Research. It makes sense – ships are on their own, out of sight – exhibiting some of the same elements that can lead to the sort of trouble that Plato talked about almost 2500 years ago. Even within the ships themselves there are opportunities for this “out of sight” behavior. Submarines even more so. If we think about instances of hazing, they often occur in areas of the ship that have been allowed to become remote – out of the normal ship’s circulation and not visited often enough by supervision. They become “sanctuaries” for outrageous behavior. One important ingredient for eliminating hazing and other outrageous and undesirable behavior is to eliminate these out of the way, “invisible” sanctuaries.
...I think he is wrong, people can be moral and ethical with
power. If people have a good heart and they truly know themselves ,they can
handle all the power that has been given them. The more power a person has the
more important transparency becomes...everyone can see the actions of the
powerful. I am saying the more power you have, for the powerful to be
successful, the more you have to make yourself and the organization transparent
to the greater body( the public). Gets you to wondering if the navy has a
ethical problem ...their corrective actions to date hasn't affected the whole organization.
The corrective actions just hasn't gone deep enough and they haven't corrected
all the root causes. Is all the ethical problems the Vice Admiral speaks about
and the conflagration of the USS Miami SSN 755 all related? Is the Vice Admiral
saying the head of the snake can't see what the tail is doing?
Is a shipyard another sanctuary? Maybe you need a battalion
of civilians riding your ships as second eyes?
"Any one of these fires could have had catastrophic
consequences and the frequency of these incidents raises the most serious
safety concerns.
So the Brits have 11 nuclear submarines and we have 71...
We have had a tremendous amount of fires in our submarines and most submarine sailors repetitively have been confronted with a sailor reporting "fire, fire, fire" and the ship being terrifyingly placed on a fire standing ship wide. I bet you the US Navy has an astonishing high frequency of fires on board their ships...there is certainly a lot of anecdotal evidence of a high fire rate on US ships talking to sellers and many $100's of millions of dollars of damage. You know, what fire frequency does US Navy ships and submarine have?
Why is the US Navy so secretive about ship and submarine fires...why do we protect the shipyards, the admirals and the politicians so much?
There is no doubt the Brits are keying off our billion dollar submarine fire in Portsmouth NH...
So the Brits have 11 nuclear submarines and we have 71...
We have had a tremendous amount of fires in our submarines and most submarine sailors repetitively have been confronted with a sailor reporting "fire, fire, fire" and the ship being terrifyingly placed on a fire standing ship wide. I bet you the US Navy has an astonishing high frequency of fires on board their ships...there is certainly a lot of anecdotal evidence of a high fire rate on US ships talking to sellers and many $100's of millions of dollars of damage. You know, what fire frequency does US Navy ships and submarine have?
Why is the US Navy so secretive about ship and submarine fires...why do we protect the shipyards, the admirals and the politicians so much?
There is no doubt the Brits are keying off our billion dollar submarine fire in Portsmouth NH...
Nuclear submarines hit by more than 200 fires in the past 25
years
There have been 266 fires on nuclear submarines in the past 25 years, it has emerged.
1:28PM BST 08 Jul 2012
There have been 266 fires on nuclear submarines in the past 25 years, it has emerged.
1:28PM BST 08 Jul 2012
The incidents included 74 on ballistic missile submarines.
Three of the fires happened while the vessels were in naval bases, one of them on a ballistic missile submarine.
Peter Luff, Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology, gave the figures in response to a parliamentary question by SNP defence spokesman Angus Robertson.
Mr Robertson said the "apparent vulnerability" to fire events on these vessels raises "grave questions" for UK ministers.
He said: "Any one of these fires could have had catastrophic consequences and the frequency of these incidents raises the most serious safety concerns.
"We are not talking about a one-off incident, but a whole diary of near disasters.
"That so many of these incidents occurred on submarines that may have been nuclear armed is deeply troubling. Reports of a fire on a ballistic missiles submarine, while in port, must be addressed by the MoD - we need to know where this was?
"Beyond the obvious risk to the crew, citizens on shore, and the environment, a significant fire could severely limit the UK's ability to maintain a continuous at-sea deterrent.
It makes a mockery of any UK claims to having a credible 'independent' nuclear deterrent."
He added "Now, more than ever, the time is right to remove nuclear weapons from our waters."
Of the 266 fires, 243 were classed as "small-scale" and categorised as a localised fire, such as a minor electrical fault creating smoke.
There were 20 medium-scale fires that were generally categorised as a localised fire, such as a failure of mechanical equipment creating smoke and flame, requiring the use of "significant onboard resources".
Mr Luff said that information on whether ballistic missile submarines were armed with nuclear weapons when the fires occurred was not available.
There are nuclear submarines based at Faslane on the Clyde but the location of the incidents was not specified.
An MoD spokesman said: "No fire on board any Royal Navy submarine has ever had an impact on nuclear safety or the ability to operate a continuous at-sea deterrent.
"Due to the nature of submarine operations, meticulous records are kept of all incidents involving fire, however small. Most of those recorded were minor electrical faults that were dealt with quickly, safely and effectively.
"The Royal Navy operates a stringent safety regime on board all its submarines and all personnel receive regular and extensive fire safety training."
Three of the fires happened while the vessels were in naval bases, one of them on a ballistic missile submarine.
Peter Luff, Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology, gave the figures in response to a parliamentary question by SNP defence spokesman Angus Robertson.
Mr Robertson said the "apparent vulnerability" to fire events on these vessels raises "grave questions" for UK ministers.
He said: "Any one of these fires could have had catastrophic consequences and the frequency of these incidents raises the most serious safety concerns.
"We are not talking about a one-off incident, but a whole diary of near disasters.
"That so many of these incidents occurred on submarines that may have been nuclear armed is deeply troubling. Reports of a fire on a ballistic missiles submarine, while in port, must be addressed by the MoD - we need to know where this was?
"Beyond the obvious risk to the crew, citizens on shore, and the environment, a significant fire could severely limit the UK's ability to maintain a continuous at-sea deterrent.
It makes a mockery of any UK claims to having a credible 'independent' nuclear deterrent."
He added "Now, more than ever, the time is right to remove nuclear weapons from our waters."
Of the 266 fires, 243 were classed as "small-scale" and categorised as a localised fire, such as a minor electrical fault creating smoke.
There were 20 medium-scale fires that were generally categorised as a localised fire, such as a failure of mechanical equipment creating smoke and flame, requiring the use of "significant onboard resources".
Mr Luff said that information on whether ballistic missile submarines were armed with nuclear weapons when the fires occurred was not available.
There are nuclear submarines based at Faslane on the Clyde but the location of the incidents was not specified.
An MoD spokesman said: "No fire on board any Royal Navy submarine has ever had an impact on nuclear safety or the ability to operate a continuous at-sea deterrent.
"Due to the nature of submarine operations, meticulous records are kept of all incidents involving fire, however small. Most of those recorded were minor electrical faults that were dealt with quickly, safely and effectively.
"The Royal Navy operates a stringent safety regime on board all its submarines and all personnel receive regular and extensive fire safety training."
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